Feb. 8, 2023

"It's Only Rock 'n Roll (But I Like It)" w Darryl Jones of The Rolling Stones

Season 11 kicks off with a bang and a big ol' tongue! Rolling Stones bassist Darryl Jones joins Rob and JP for some conversations about auditioning for the Stones some 30 years ago, playing for Sting, and flexing on Miles Davis.


Apostrophes and parentheses galore!

“Oops, we recorded this in the wrong key.”

Pick up the phone!

“At least we had the music:” The impact of losing Charlie Watts and the future of the Rolling Stones with Steve Jordan

Subscribe now to Rob's new show, Cinema Snack Bar! The trailer is out now, and episodes launch in March!

Get more from the show when you subscribe on Patreon, including extended shows, early release, and access to our second show, The Catch-Up with Rob and JP!

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[00:00:00] Turn out the radio and

sing all along. It's time for another great song. This is the Great Song Podcast. Season's. Greetings,

and welcome once again to the Great Song Podcast. I'm Rob Alley. I have J.P. Moser, and we're here to celebrate the greatest songs in modern music history. We're gonna tell you what makes 'em great, why we think they're awesome, and why you should too J.P.

How you doing today, man? I am

doing fantastic. We're back folks with season 1111, woo. And you know, we go epic on openers. We have a legendary bass player who played with Miles Davis Sting, but today we're talking Rolling Stones and that's right, we have Bass player of the Rolling Stones stick around for an interview with Darryl Jones of the Rolling Stones and others.

But for now, Rob, kick it to a song. Just tell 'em whatever we're talking about ,

this is, it's only rock and roll parentheses, but I like it by the Rolling Stones.[00:01:00]


Oh yeah. Oh

man. Yeah, buddy.

That's, it's only rock. Only. Okay, so here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna talk about apostrophes in a second. . So that's listed in, that's listed on iTunes as it's only rock apostrophe in apostrophe roll parentheses. But I like it by the Rolling

Stones. All you English and grammar majors out there are like, this is my favorite episode.

Yeah. Cause we're gonna talk about a lot of punctuation

and on, on Apple music. That's how it's listed. I'm not sure on the original album, I think on the original album it's just apostrophe in. But actually if you want to get technical, Apostrophe in apostrophe is the right way to abbreviate that. Because here's the rule on apostrophe's kids and apostrophe takes the place of a letter or a group of letters that should not be there.

Yeah, I mean that, that, that should be there. That should be there. That you're eliminating, right? So if you're eliminating the A and the D from the word, and there should be an apostrophe in [00:03:00] both. Now often that gets a post abbreviated as just apostrophe in, and that's kind of a given thing, but just technical.

That's right. If you're being technical, it should have one at the beginning and end of that. . And so that's when you're thinking about using an apostrophe, it's either that or it's making a word like possessive, right? Uhhuh. . Those are the two times that you, otherwise you don't need it. Guys. and, and I'm trying to think of like, I should have looked up a list of like, worst, worst apostrophes.

Worst misuses of apostrophes. That's one of those things that just just gets me. So anyway, so two grammar things in just the title of the song. That's right. Apostrophe and parentheses, which you guys know I'm a big

fan of. The more, you know, star just went across the,

the top. That's right. So yeah, that is only, it's only rock and roll parentheses, but I like it by the Rolling Stones from the 1974 album.

It's only rock and roll, written by Mick Jagger and Keith Richard. At least that's what the credits say. More on that later. It went to number 16 in the us, [00:04:00] number 10 in the uk, number 17 in Australia, number 13 in Canada, number six in Ireland, and top 20, several other places. So let's,

and just so you guys know, me and Rob are both wearing sailor suits today.

Yeah. And, and there are just bubbles galore.

So many bubbles. We actually are on a timer before the bubbles go over our heads. Right, . So and that is of course a reference to the, of course we might not know. I don't know. This is of course a reference to the sort of music video. It was like pre mtv.

They weren't doing like full-blown music videos yet, but there was like a promotional video that featured the band playing in sailor suits and bubbles filling the room. Like I don't know exactly how they did the bubbles. Probably you would like wash like dishwasher. Detergent. I

guess I looked it up and now I can't remember.

I didn't put it in my notes, but I've heard that there was one point where they thought that it was actually going to cover the drum set. Yeah. Like completely cover the drum set. Yeah.

And so that's what, that's what we're doing today. Studio's full of bubbles, . And once it gets up to our noses, then you'll know, you know, that we start gurgling.

Yeah. Yeah. So let me say this a [00:05:00] as we, before we kind of dig into the song and dig into the Rolling Stones as a whole I have come a long way on the Rolling Stones, even since we started this podcast Oh, yeah. In the last five years, you know? And we, I can, I can see myself saying something even as, as early as like the first season of this show where basically I was like, I would've said, I'm not a Rolling Stones fan as of that.

Recently, I would've probably told you I don't really care much for the Rolling Stones. I've tried to get into 'em, but I, you know, but I can't. But over the last few years, I've, I've been able to let myself frame things differently the way I, you know, listen to music that I didn't, didn't get before, or even just flat didn't like before.

And I'm a lot more open to, I'm a lot less likely now to just be like, I don't like that. Yeah. You know, you raised me up. Not withstanding . Right, right. But . But, so the Rolling Stones is one of those things that I f I finally just let it be what it is. Yeah. And not compare it to other things that I like or other expectations

that I have.

I'm, I'm [00:06:00] glad you said that because I hate the Stones versus Beatles comparison. Yeah. That I hate that argument. And for that reason, I wouldn't let myself dig deep on the Stones, cuz I'm like, it's always Stones versus Beatles. Yes. Let's, and this is a weird comparison, but it's like, I don't wanna look up stuff on the Celtics.

I'm a Laker fan. Right. But the Celtics, were a good team. Let's just be on it. Yeah. Like, I could hate 'em. But that, that regard aside, I've learned more about the Stones and probably the past six months. You said even like the year. Mm-hmm. once we, once I found out we were interviewing Darryl Jones Yeah. And hanging out with him, I was like, okay, I'm gonna like, give myself a chance on this.

And I've listened to more stones in the past six months than I have in my entire life. Yeah. Like, if you, like I've listened to more Stones, no joke in the past six months than I have in all the years prior. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just, it's a, it's a, it's a thing where like, You can let go of some of that bias, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. , you can you just have to let yourself be okay doing it, you know? But one of the, one of the things that I kind of frame language differently around music since we've started this [00:07:00] show is I'm much less likely to say, I don't like that, or, that's not good. Uhhuh , I'm much less likely to say That's not good.

Yeah. And much more likely to say, that's not for me. Mm-hmm. . Right. And but also I just find myself able to listen to a lot more now since we've started this show. I, I find it much harder to be like, just super critical of a band's music.

Next for Rob is the Doors. Now we're just gotta get Right.


yeah. We'll see. It's like, yeah. Honestly, it's like, who's next? Do you know what I mean? Like, what is the band that I've just never really connected with before that, you know, sooner or later I'm gonna come around on, cuz it's happening now. And I'm much more, I'm much more open, which I, I wouldn't have thought.

But I guess in just researching, like, you know, we're talking about these people every week and we're. Talking about like their real lives Yeah. And stuff like that. And I don't know if that's part of it, that it's like humanizing these people. And so I don't wanna be like, dude, your music sucks . You know what I mean?

You suck at the thing you love the most. Yeah. is a hard thing to hear. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So maybe that's it. I'm just, I, you know, I'm a [00:08:00] softie and I don't like to hurt people's feelings. And I know these people aren't listening, but just in case. But they might be, you know, , you never know. But anyway, so that's kind of where I am on the Rolling Stones.

I don't want, you know, people who are like just discovering the show and they're in the middle of season one when I might have said something like, you know, I don't like the Rolling Stones or whatever. Hypocrite. Yeah. Like, okay. Yeah. Hypocrite, loser. Liar. By the way,

those of y'all that are listening back through one, I've told our listeners this, please don't start with one and come this way,

Go start 11 and go backwards. Yeah. Like, go 10, 9, 8. There you go. That's the best way to get it. Cuz you'll, you'll hear the unraveling of some of the jokes. Yeah. And we'll, we, we kind of hit our stride about season three or. Yeah. Four. Maybe

you can hear the show Devolve in real time. Devolve. I like it.

Yeah. So, alright, now let's get into some, some coverage of the song and, and all that outta the way. By the way, season 11, goodness Christ, golly, let, just let that be what it is. , who would've ever imagined we've, we've, we, we have crafted possibly the most difficult way [00:09:00] to make a podcast. That's right.


Oh, dude, I can't tell you how many times that I tell people that we do it, and they're like, well, he's in Chattanooga, Henderson Miller. They're like, man, that's so great that it's a podcast that you can do everything virtually these days. Right? Yeah. And we're like, well, I guess technically we could.

Yeah. But, and they're like interviews and everything. Yeah. I'm like, yeah.

We're like, we're like people who make handmade soap, you know? Right. Or like, yeah. We're like, there's a much easier way to do this. Uhhuh , but we are still gonna churn butter. Absolutely. Like in a, in a, in a basket in, that's right. A barrel like the Amish.

Yeah. You know, it, it's like, We have chosen to take a hard path as it as it pertains to podcasting, but golly, hopefully

it gives you that sweet flavor that you're looking for. That's right. We're not gonna compromise quality.

Can't quite get this flavor anywhere else, but the Moser farm . Alright, so let's, let's dig in a little bit on, it's only rock and roll, but I like it.

And then we're gonna talk some general stones, and then we're gonna talk to a stone world. We well done. Got us a stone . And he's an awesome dude and we got to have, you know, [00:10:00] when we, when we first interviewed him, it was pretty fresh on like the passing of Charlie Watts. So we get into that with him and get some very real, you know, moments with him.

Because that relationship between a drummer and a bassist is always Yeah. Kind of special. So so we're looking forward to it. He, and he's got a cool documentary we're gonna talk about. So hang tight. We're gonna talk to Darryl Jones in just a little bit. Okay. First of all, I am not too cool to admit.

that I sometimes miscount the end of the verse into the chorus. Okay. On this song. Okay. Yeah. It's just a straightforward force. Uhhuh it. There is no meter change, but my brain wants there to be. Yeah, a meter change. Let's listen and especially the, the first chorus is cool because there's this little syncopation, uhhuh coming into coming at the beginning of this first course.

Now, this is not Charlie Watts, which we'll talk about later.

Kenny Jones,

but this is 1, 2, 3, 4, 1,

2, 3, 4, 1. [00:11:00] But listen,

that snare is so listen to the

kick and snare. It's so right. Yeah. And my, my brain kind of, every time the chorus rolls around, so it's what you think the boy

1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4. Four. Right. I want there to be a measure of two. Yeah. And then two bars of four. Yeah. But it's

just two bars of four. I'm so glad you said that too, because I'm like, when does the, this is gonna sound silly, but when does the chorus actually start Uhhuh? So I'm like, is this end of verse, is this beginning of chorus?

Yes. The way they, they, yes. So

it's ju it's just a straightforward but the, the kind of syncopation going on the kick and snare, and then there's like a weird late snare, like a off offset snare hit. At the beginning of that chorus, which makes you go, wait, was I right? Like for a second? Uhhuh, you, you know that when the vocals hit that, that's the, that's one.

That's the one, yeah, same.

But you're, I get it. One.[00:12:00]

So that light snare,

man, it's easy to get fooled and I'm not too cool to admit that I have occasionally gotten fooled by that and gone, oh, oh snap. I was on the wrong spot. But as a matter of fact, sometimes even still, it's easier for me to count. This is stupid. It's easier for you for me to count a bar of two and then a bar of six than it is for me to think.

Two bars of four. Four . It's eight counts either way, but sometimes I think. Ain it string 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Oh no. Oh, man. Yeah. You know, it's, I know

not, I know. Oh, no. Oh no. Oh, no. It's only rock and

roll. Oh, no. The song is in the key of E originally, but when they do it live now they do it in B and Whoa. Yeah.

That's not right. It's not like they dropped it a half step. They, they, they do it in B, which is have a live recording of that? A fourth lower? Yeah. I'll find one. And they did it get this, [00:13:00] so, okay. You can hear why. Okay. And I'll explain, here's why you would drop this song by a fourth. And not just like by a step.

Not go to d I

mean d I could understand it's

because listen to the, listen to the vocals on the.

Roll play this next line.

Rock and roll.

Okay. So what you got going on here is what you call it split Octa Unison. Okay. Yeah. You've got Mick doubling his own vocals. One of 'em is low. I know. It's all rock and roll. If you do that live, it has no energy. Okay. The other part is freaking high. Yeah, right. That's an egg. I know. No, and Mick is not trying to do that every night.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And and he said basically they realized as soon as they started playing it live, that that was a problem. Yeah. Okay. And so they, they're like, crap. We, the the article that I read, I think it was Wikipedia, it reads like he said, we [00:14:00] recorded the song in the wrong key. Like, oops, by accident Uhhuh

You know what I mean? But what he, what what it means is he realized later we should have done this in a different

key. Right. So that, yeah. So that we can. Duplicate it live more easily and readily. Yes. And so

this came out so like, and you can hear, so it's a really high chorus on the high part. Oh yeah.

Which is what you would have to do to make it have energy. And he wasn't really hitting it flush in 74. Yeah, he's, he's not quite getting there. It's a little loose, so there's no chance it's happening now. You know what I mean? Uhhuh . And so as early as their 1977 live album, love You Live, it was a bee already.

Oh man.

So three years later they're like, we already moved right

away. Yeah. So here it is. Here it is from that album. Love You Live

a little Faster. Yeah.

And doesn't really lose anything,[00:15:00]

you know, it's fun.

Yeah. Right.


It doesn't bother me. , it's not a big problem. So

you know, it should like, it's so diff like on paper. Yeah. That's a completely different song because of the, where it falls in the

registry. It's funny because it kind of adds vocally some, some energy to the verses mm-hmm.

right? Because it's up higher on the verses than it is, so ain't it strange? It's a little more powerful on the verses and then the chorus is just fine. Mm-hmm. , it's, you know, and you still have what you have here that you don't have on the original recording is a more present harmony. Mm-hmm. . Right? So you hear it live.

Yeah. And you got the chorus, the harmony, ah, no, it's, so you know, which it ends up in the same range as the original vocal. Mm-hmm. . So that's kind of how they got around that.

I'm trying to think how he plays, how, how Keith plays it. Then like if that riff like how he's Yeah, that would be, if I wrote a song like, [00:16:00] this is the way I want to, or I'm thinking of playing it to change it from E to B is going to be a completely different finger position.

It's not like you can Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, part of what you have and the Stones aren't using

capos, so Right.

And one of the things that you have that kind of drives the verse that leads me to another music note on this is that that open E. Yeah, right, you've got that like syncopated electric guitar and so to, to do that in B, let's see what he does.

Let's see what he's doing on the verse.

It's just a straight part.

Yeah, it's just, he's just playing B but you don't get the sound of that open E, there's something special about that. Yeah. Open E and the top two B, big E and B strings on entire bucket. You know,

it's just open bucked. Yeah, I get that.

And so, okay, let me go back then to the original.

And how about on the original, how far Pan [00:17:00] left that guitar?

Yeah. Can you hear it in your he headphones? Absolutely. Like, that's the first thing I, that's why I literally took my headphones off and was like, I just wanna make sure I'm on the right side, , because it's definitely left. Yeah, as far left as can

be. That's right. And you've got, you get acoustic guitar on the, on the right side and you get that electric panned hard left.

But, so, okay, let, let's listen again to this guitar part and what's going on here. I'll go second

verse here.


right. Now hold that in your brain. Okay. Hold that in your brain. And I'm gonna play you a song from three years earlier and just tell me what you think.

This is bang a gong. Get it on by T-Rex.[00:18:00]


right, panned right? Yeah.

Hard, right? Yeah,


Yeah, man,

you. Oh, that's so good. Sweet.

Which by the way, that's a great song. How did we not talk about this song when we talked about Nxs? There is so much Michael Hutchins in this delivery. It's sweet. Yo, even that line that sounds like an Nxs line. Dirty sweetened,

yo, my girl Bang.

You may know the power station version of that. Yeah, that could, you know the Robert Palmer on vocals. But anyway, that song came out three years before.

I think we talked about that with our Dave Barons episode. Go back

and listen to. So that, that the T-Rex version of that came out three years before.

It's only rock and roll, but I like it. That's awesome. And it's got that very similar. Yeah. Right. I mean the, the, the feel is a hundred percent

the same. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And even kind of the guitar tone, [00:19:00] maybe a little more distortion on the T-Rex version you know, which for 1971 is, is pretty heavy, but I, I haven't seen any sort of like accusations of, well I've seen from like internet commenters, you know, accusations of theft there, you know.

But T-Rex, British British Band, you can, man, I should

know more about him. I feel like

I love that song. I love that song. Yeah. It's no dope song. We gotta cover to some point. Get me t-Rex on the phone. any dinosaur. Yeah. Okay. It is said that it's only rock and roll, but I like it is about the like increased theatrics of, of like glam rock artists you know and like Alice Cooper who was doing like weird stuff on stage by this point.

You know what I mean? Big stage acts that are like creepy and. And kind of over the top, let's say if

they only know what's to come with the tubes.

Yeah, the, exactly, that's exactly what I thought of The tubes. Yeah. And like Lady Gaga. Yeah. And like, you know, stuff is really, really, really wild. But Mick said in 1993 the idea of the song, this is a quote, the idea of the song has to do with our [00:20:00] public persona.

At the time I was getting a bit tired of people having a go, all that, oh, it's not as good as their last one business. The single sleeve had a picture of me with a pen digging it into me as if it were a sword. It was a lighthearted, anti journalistic sort of thing. This is from Wikipedia. Jagger said Jagger also has said that as soon as he wrote it, he knew it was going to be a single.

He said it was to answer to everyone who took seriously what he or the band did. According to Richards, there was opposition to it being a single, but they persisted saying it had to be the next single. He said that to him. That song is a classic quote. That song is a classic. The title alone is a classic, and that's the whole thing about it.

Which, That part, I a hundred percent agree with the, the idea of this song is, is, is everything. Yeah. Like it's what I was talking about earlier, being able to just go, this is what it is, and I can, I can be okay with that. Right? Yeah. Like I don't have to put this up against something else. I can like this for what it [00:21:00] is and it doesn't have to compare to something else that I like.

Absolutely. You know what I mean? And what a thing, what a. for like you, if you're listening, to be able to look at the thing that you do. Right. The thing that you pour your heart into and to, to be able to say about the thing that you do. Yeah. If it's art, if it's music, if it's a podcast, it's only business, it's Facebook cards.

But a like

it, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's whatever it is, it's your thing. Yeah. It's like, you know, this may not be high art, Uhhuh, . This may not be you know, this may not be the greatest cinematic achievement. Right. My student film. Yeah. Or whatever. Right. But it is what it is, and I like it. Yeah. And, and it's, it's only what it is.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And I can be happy about

it, you know? And that, that the title of the song and the concept of the song is the main thing that made me want to do this song when we were talking about which stone song. Like that's what, yeah. I have a couple people that have been like, you, you know, which stone song are you doing?

Yeah. It's like, it's gonna be [00:22:00] this one. And they're like, really? And it's like, we'll show you why, or tell you what, like Yeah. Because, because there are charters that charted higher Sure. There maybe are some that are like, that's not the best Stone song. Yeah. But to us, this one made

sense. Right, right. So this Yeah, exactly.

This is not their most iconic song.

And we'll talk about those. Don't worry. We're you, we're gonna get you your stone stuff and

this album, they, they were right in the middle of an, of an era. You know, where it, it's funny to say, I, I'll, I gotta find the quote. Hang on. Here it is. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about the album and the process of this.

it was not a universally well received or beloved album, at least originally. Some people would even say this was basically the end of the Stone's originality. Yeah. That there wasn't much that came new that was, that broke any new ground after this. Right. And that there's a quote that I read somewhere that this was them in, in a in a review of this album, that this was them basically coming to terms with being Rocks Elder Statesman.

That was in 1974. Goodness gracious. [00:23:00] But their biggest selling albums actually came after this point. Like they may have had more iconic songs before then. A lot of their most known songs are before this. But some girls in 1978 Tattoo You in 81, which had Start me up steel Wheels in 89, voodoo Lounge in 94.

Yes. All huge albums. And

Voodoo Lounge is the first one to feature Darryl. That's right. So great album.

And so you know, it's like. They were just saying, we, we don't really care what you think. Right. And I'm not, I'm not going to go so far as to, you know saw myself in half on stage to try and make you think what we're doing is cool or good.

Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. , it's only rock and roll, you know what I mean? And it's good enough for me. Yeah. Like it's fine. Good. So the album itself did go to number one in the us went to number two in the uk. I don't know what kept it from number one, but I should have looked that up. Probably something wack

Right. If we, if we know anything about that, it's probably something really wack Joe [00:24:00] Dolche. That he was really on a roll. Number five in Canada. It went platinum in the US Gold in the uk. It was the final album to feature guitarist Mick Taylor, who had stepped into the band after Brian Jones departed.

Aside from songwriting and credit tensions, it appears to be that the final straw for Taylor was that the band didn't really tour off this record, instead opting to go straight back into the studio. It was produced by the glimmer twins. Do you know the Glimmer twins are? Mm-hmm. . It's a pseudonym for Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.

Okay. They are the glimmer twins. I didn't know that. This seems like a good spot to meet the band, maybe. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. Hey, let's meet the band. It's time

to meet the man. Hey mama. Let's meet the man. Let's all meet the band. Band.

All right, so we're gonna meet some Rolling Stones. Let's, let's, let's do it on lead vocals. Mick Jagger, six decades. Who? Right, exactly, sir. [00:25:00] Michael Phillip Jagger. Michael Michael. Michael Phillip, aka a Mick. Never knew that. Solo work as well. Dancing in the streets with Bowie. Little, little Bowie teaser there for what's to come.

Super group, super heavy with Josh, Josh Stone and Damien Marley, his first. So Al Solo album, she's the boss had Jeff Beck on guitar. Yeah. So you could talk about Mick Jagger forever. Yes. So

and Beck apparently was one of the guys who was considered for the band. After Mick Taylor left before Ron Wood, like, or as Ron Wood came in, they also considered Beck and a few other notable guitars.

Rory Gallagher, I think was one of them. And, and several.

On lead guitar, Keith Richards. Yep. Was referred to as, as Keith Richard. I don't know if you saw that. Pre s before he added in the sixties and seventies, he was Keith Richard. Ah. So I, I didn't know that till I was looking through and, and learning on this, but definitely the songwriting partner of, of Mick Jagger.

Interesting. All the, all the way through.

Is that how like people like to [00:26:00] add an s to the end of business names? Like, I'm gonna go to Blockbusters and get me a vintage Walmart. Yeah. Like ?

No, but Blockbusters is actually what it, who is it? Blockbuster? No, he's Blockbuster. Oh, wow. You're right. Yeah. That's so crazy.

I've heard it as blockbusters my whole, that's so funny. That's great. Yeah, inducting, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I mean, has written tons of, tons of stuff. We, again, another person that I could, could expound on for, for hours, but for the sake of the, and

I mean, it's hard. I mean, he's been alive since the 16 hundreds.

So ,

you know, dude, he has looked old since day one. He's, yeah, he's always bet old. I, yeah, I bet. As in like junior high, he probably had, like, he just looked old,

you know? He, he pro Yes. He probably looked like Iggy Pop. Age in high school. Yeah. You know, ?

Yeah. He took over as the band leader when, when Brian Jones left.

But we'll talk a little bit about that as we move on. We'll, actually, we'll go to Brian Jones next. Guitars, keyboards, percussion other instruments. He did it all. So, Brian Jones was a [00:27:00] wonderful musician. Drug and alcohol problems led to being kicked out and replaced by Mick Taylor, who I'll talk about here in a minute.

He drowned in a swimming pool less than a month later. Some actually theorized he was murdered by Frank Thurgood. I don't know if you heard this. Really? No. He was a builder that was doing some construction work on the property. And there's a movie called Stoned that I haven't, I haven't seen, but I want to, I wanna watch it.

It's, it's about the life of Brian. He actually founded the Rolling Stones. Great musician and I mean, I'm gonna say maybe the best musician if you would, of all the stones that they've, that they've had drums, bass, guitars, keyboard, slide guitar. He's an open tuning guy. Okay. He's a open E, open g player pretty religiously even when not playing.

Slide. On base. I'm just gonna go original basis and talk about Bill Wyman for a minute. Mm-hmm. and then we'll, we'll get down through here. Was asked to join the group as he had a spare Vox AC 30 amp . I love the story of that. When you've got the gear and you make the group because you've got the gear.

Love it. He patented his own bill Wyman's signature metal detector. So what he's a, yeah, he's got a, [00:28:00] he's a big metal detector guy. Okay. So yeah. Started on piano till age 13 and, and then played piano and then swapped to guitar around 18 and then switched to bass. And he made his own fretless bass by removing the frets on a Dallas tuxedo bass.

Okay. So he made his own fretless. I would

never have the nerve to try and do something like take the frets off my, you know.

Right. . The so wyman's, this is, this is crazy. I'm gonna have to read this cuz I'll, I'll mess this up if I don't say it right. Wyman's son Steven married Patsy Smith, the 46 year old mother.

Of Bill's ex-wife Mandy Smith. So B, get this, so Bill became the father-in-law of his ex-mother-in-law as well as the step-grandfather of his ex-wife . I love that. It's my own grandpa. The song? Yeah. Dang. It's the, it's the my, let me read that again. Yes, please. So cuz for those of y'all that are [00:29:00] taking notes with a pen and paper, like, let me write this family tree down.

Wyman's son, Steven. Okay. Married Patsy Smith, who was the 46 year old mother. Of Bill's ex-wife. Okay. Mandy Smith. So Bill became the father-in-law of his ex-mother-in-law. Yeah. As well as the step-grandfather of his ex-wife, . Dang. That's maybe my favorite fact of the whole research session. Wow.

That's that's bizarre.

That's pretty and awesome. That's like one of those logic puzzles. Yeah. That's like Bill ate the purple ice cream, Uhhuh, . You know what I mean? And Andy's ice cream was a different color, you know what I mean? It was like logic where you have like five people's names and then little boxes to check off.

Yeah. What color?

Yeah, exactly.

Who finished the ice cream first? Uhhuh, you know, whatever.

Yeah, that's good. Charlie Watts on drums. The Wembley Whammer. It's a good nickname. That is great. He was a graphic artist that was trained in jazz. Okay. And do you hear jazz elements in stones? , [00:30:00] maybe little snippets, but not heavily.

No. It's

much more blues. It's, yeah, blues is is the influence on so much of the early, like British invasion? Not, not British invasion necessarily, but like the but blues are, are what the, the Beatles started with a lot of blues influence. Yeah. You know what I mean? Doing their versions of, of blue songs.

Yeah. And, and a lot of what you hear from the Stones cream you know, early stuff like that. Yardbirds is the, it's funny, the UK is what made blues famous and cool. , but it was birthed here in the us They don't, in Mississippi, Delta and all that stuff. They, it's like the blues was not getting its appreciation.

Its proper due here in the States as an art form. And then these UK artists started hearing it and it was hard to get there. And so that was an element too, of like, it was a rare thing. So when you could find it, you really appreciated it. And and they were like, these songs are amazing. And they [00:31:00] start doing it.

And so then blues kind of catches on here in the States as, as something that was more of a, you know, something to be appreciated. Yeah. But a lot of it, On a larger scale, on a, on a

mainstream scale. It got a shot in the arm from the uk that's for sure. Which

is such a weird thing to think about. Yep.

He was the drummer from 1962 until death.

Yeah. So, and that he died in 2021. 21. So, yeah. That's crazy.

Was it 2021 or was it

22? 21. Okay. Yeah, August of 21. Okay. Okay. So Mick Taylor, I don't wanna skip on him as he's important. Years of the Rolling Stones. Yeah. Sticky Fingers album, I mean, brown Sugar. Let's play a little Brown Sugar. Let's, let's start playing some clips a little bit.

Let's play Brown Sugar by Maxwell . In 2011 Rolling Stones voted him the number 37 Es guitarist.


man. How's that for a bounce back? Like a,[00:32:00]

you could just hear those guitars and know it's a Rolling stone

song for a hundred percent and that groove, like that sort of simple driving


sugar, brown sugar. So, yeah. Now Ronnie Wood on guitar since 1975, he was in Faces and the Jeff Beck Group he became an official member in 1970. But not a financial partner till Bill Wyman left in 93. So Mick and Keith always with that, that money mindset. Ronnie Wood played at Clapton's Rainbow Concert, so he's, he's the other guitar player at Clapton's Rainbow Concert.

So, okay touring now. So I wanna talk about who's touring now with the Stones. Okay. Chuck level on, on keyboards and backing vocals that we've talked about on other episodes and we'll talk about on future episodes. Bernard Fowler backing vocals and percussion since 1989. Matt Clifford on keyboards, French horn, [00:33:00] and he's the musical integrator, is his title.

He's been doing that. He did that from 1989 and 90, and then 2012 till the present. On sax and keyboards. Tim Rice, 99 till now. Carl Denson on saxophone from 2014 till now. Sasha Allen on backing vocals and co-lead vocals on Gimme shelter. Mm-hmm. 2016 till now. One of

the just powerhouse vocal

performances of all time, man.

And we're gonna talk about it here in a minute. With with yeah. Mary Clayton and everything. Drums. 2021 till now will be Steve Jordan. So playing, playing with him, the guy who

fell asleep in the session for Pinnacle Colada songs. There you

go. Go listen to our interview with Rupert Holmes. That's a, that's a fun one.

And on bass guitar since 1994. Darryl Jones. Y'all hang around. Y'all are really gonna like to, to hear from him. 1994 Voodoo Lounge was the first project that he came in that tour. Grossed 320 million, which was the highest grossing tour at the time. Yeah. So 320 million. And this guy's the bass player on it.


it's funny. For, for, for [00:34:00] a group that allegedly peaked in the early seventies. Seventies, yeah. Their tour is always like one of the top two or three tours in the world. Absolutely. They just can't stop selling out tours. Yeah. It's crazy. But you know, I imagine till the day they hanging up, they'll be, you know, it's, it's so funny because they did what.

you know, people wanted the Beatles to do but couldn't get mm-hmm. . Right. They stayed together. Yeah. And kept going and, and never fell off the cliff. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, they would put out, you know, they weren't necessarily topping the charts at all times, but it's like well it's like, you know, Billy Joel sells out Madison Square Garden every month, you know, he's not even touring.

He's selling out the same city every month.

Yeah. You know, and he has been for years now and he playing the same songs. Maybe some different, maybe some slight tweaks to the set list. Yeah. But yeah, it's

like at a certain point you just become an [00:35:00] institution and people just go see you to mm-hmm. to appreciate your body



Yeah. People plan trips to New York to go see Billy Joel. Right. And yeah,

same. Yeah. So it's like if you get a chance to go see the Stones, you go see the Stones. Yeah. You know, you mentioned Ron Wood and he has a kind of another connection to it's only rock and roll, but I like it, which is most of what you hear on the album version.

is the original recording of this song, which was actually a demo that came out of kind of a jam slash writing session at Ron Wood's house. Ron Wood lived at this estate in the UK and Ron at the time was the guitarist for Faces Rod Stewart's group. But after this album he would become a, a, a member of the Stones, but he was jamming at home with Mick and that would be Mick Jagger, not Mick Taylor.

David Bowie, Willie Weeks on Base and Faces drummer Kenny Jones. Keith Richards later redid the electric parts and he kept, but he kept Ronnie Woods acoustic 12 string part. That's where you hear Ronnie on acoustic and left the rest of the parts. So most of what you hear is from that original session [00:36:00] at Ron Wood's house.

So it's got Kenny Jones on drums Yeah. Versus Kenny Jones. That's

right. And, and Willie Wigs on base and David Bowie on background vocals. Yeah. So kind of an interesting other little, you know, color to this thing. It sounds very Stones. Yeah. You wouldn't go. U unless you're very, very, very familiar with like Charlie's playing.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's got that feel Uhhuh . Right? It's got that same kind of feel. And even

Willy's bass tone isn't that different. It's, yeah. Probably. Yeah. It's not, not that different to me. Yeah.

Okay. Let's see.

You wanna hit some songs? Let's just hit Sure. Let's hit some songs. Rolling Stones, appreciation time.

So here we'll just, we'll just hit a few. Paint it black. Let's start there. Alright. Melodies played by Brian Jones on Sitar. It's kind of their psychedelic ragga rock in all kinds of movies. Most notable for me is full metal jacket, but,

Weirdest time I ever heard this [00:37:00] song was at a funeral. No. As they carried the body in. No promise.


I'll tell you whose funeral it was after we record

summer, I have to turn my head until my darkness goes. Yeah.

I think this recently got used in the Wednesday series, maybe on Netflix. I need to watch. I hear it's really good. And, but I, I saw in some trailer for something where they're like, you know, the thing now is to take a classic song, make it sound epic and put it in a movie trailer.

You know what I mean? They're like, we're big hits,

you know, and it's like gunshots with every hit or whatever, you know? That's good. , I think somebody did that recently with that, with that song. I can't remember what song it was though.

Jumping Jack Flash. Let's play a little of that. Mm-hmm. one guitar is tuned [00:38:00] open. D CAP oh two. Okay. And the other is Nashville Tuning Open E.

Okay. This is the band's most performed song live Really today. Okay. This is the one they've played live more than any.

Have we talked about Nashville tuning before? I think we have. About what? Nashville tuning. I

don't know.

So let's, in case we haven't talked about Nashville tuning, we're obviously. we haven't in a while. Mm-hmm. . The Nashville tuning is where you take the, the, the first three [00:39:00] strings of of an electric guitar and tune them like normal standard tuning, E B G, and then the bottom three strings. What would be the lowest three?

D, A and E. You tune them and Octa up,

I think are, are you, I thought it was two and four. I thought E and B were changed and I, let's check that. Okay. Yeah, because I think it's G d, A and E are tuned and Octa above. Check on that and see. I could be, let's, let's check that. I thought it was two and four. All right.

Wikipedia, Nashville, or high strung tuning refers to the practice of replacing the wound e a D and GST strings. Yeah. On a six string guitar with the lighter gauge strings to allow tuning and Octa higher. Yeah. So, okay. So it's only the first two strings. The It's two and four that keep normal. What do you mean?

Two and four?

Oh, four strings and two strings. Oh, you were saying three and three. Oh, oh, that's, I was hoping I was saying

that right. I, I'm sorry. I was thinking you were saying like the second and fourth string and I was like, that sounds so confusing. [00:40:00] No, no, no, no, no.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Four and two, not three and three.

Four on the top, two on the bottom or top? Yes. Depending on how you're looking

at it. Okay. So what you end up with then is the, what would normally be the lowest four strings. Mm-hmm. tuned in Octa higher. And it gives you this really shiny kind of like, almost like Rickenbacker 12 string Yeah. Kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. . And that can give you kind of a chorusy shimmery sound too. Yeah. And so, yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Two, two and four. I'm with it now. Next time. No wonder, you know, when I'm trying to, it's not sounding quite right and man, I've been trying so hard and that's why it was that G Don't gone it.

Okay. What else? Next song.

Got another track you wanna hear? Yeah, that's good. The I'll just, Yeah. Let's go. I guess satisfaction. Here's a parenthesis for you. Yeah. I can't get, no, I can't get no satisfaction.


Also with a, a apostrophe, it should be, I cannot get no satisfaction, but no, the [00:41:00] apostrophe saving the day.

Okay. Now we just listened to the intro to this song. Okay. Tell me, tell me what the bass is doing. Sits on the one, huh? It's on the one, right? Nope. Mm-hmm. Take another guess. Is it going boom, boom. Is it following the, it's not following that melody line. It's, it is on the one. It starts on the one. Tell me if you were, if you were to play, play the chord.

So I can't get, I'd pedal tone it. Just do the intro. Okay. I'd pedal tone it, boom, boom,

all boom, boom. So listen to what the base is doing and I can't get no satisfaction. So you've got the it's, it's following the, it's is it hitting the, okay. So it is, but it doesn't stop there. Okay. And that's what's interesting, that forever I would've told you that it goes So like the riff.

Are we in E We're in E here? I think so. So the riff, the riff goes B, B BBC sharp D. Mm-hmm. 5, 5 56. Flat seven. Mm-hmm. . [00:42:00] Okay. And I would've told you that the base goes e e e F sharp G, right? To fall, right? 1, 1, 1, 2, flat three, one A. Yeah. Okay. But what the base does, the base goes up to the four. The base goes a flat up to the, to the A to a a Oh to a four.

Four to a four. Yeah. Okay. So the base goes ba.

Listen to the base. Okay. While the, while the riffs is going, the base is going,

Isn't that weird?

What's it? It starts on the one, the second.

Oh, and it goes back down. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Yeah, that's crazy. Good to hear on that. Good call. Number 31 on Rolling Stones, 500 greatest songs. He wrote this one in his sleep and recorded it on tape. Really? Had no idea. He recorded it. [00:43:00] Oh, really? I idea. Woke up, recorded it. Went back to bed.

Recorded on tape. I love, love that story. It's a goodie. How about let's go? You can't always get what you want. Yeah. Yes. Lady in the red poncho at the very start of the video waving. Looks just like my mom. , like, I'll

skip the children. You can't always get what you


Can't always get what you want.

What a sweet

song. Ready? Try sometimes.

I mean, come

dude. Come on.

And this is how the stones do a ballot, right? Like, it's so good. That's such a good song. All right.

Start me up. I mean, come on. I do know what song kept, start me up off of number one. Okay. Because [00:44:00] we covered it. Season two, episode four. That would be Arthur's theme. Wow. By Christopher Cross.

Wow. And Private Eyes by Hollow Oaks. Those were the two songs that kept it. Wow.


were just talking before we started recording about the, if you haven't seen it, go to YouTube now and watch the clip of the Windows 95 launch where they played Start Me Up and the founders of Windows in their Khakis and Polos dancing around to start me up

clapping on one and four and two and 33 every

now and again.

Clapping up they're, they're dancing as though they've never heard music before.


Classic. Yeah, just that groove. The stones have a groove that nobody else really. . It's like you said earlier, it's immediately identifiable as a stones kind of group, which is weird cuz it's not, there's nothing particular about it. [00:45:00] Uhhuh, . But it just has a feel. They just have

a feel. And I don't wanna say it's basic, becau, but it's, but it, it's pretty simple.

It's simple.

Uhhuh, , but it just, the pocket stones that they sit in, it belongs to them. And

you hear that guitar and you just know that's what it is. Yeah. One song left and I was gonna talk about, Excuse me. Gimme shelter. We all know this from adventures and babysitting, right? That's where we all know it from.

I'm just kidding. Mary Clayton, on background, vocals, heavy topics. I mean, war, murder, fear. It's not a light song, but I I love this song.

Yeah, it is.

Let's get, I'll just get to the big part at the end.

This [00:46:00] song reaches heights.

Yeah, man, that goes hard. It goes hard. All right. I have a few more notes on the Rolling Stones, but maybe we should stump the Genius first. Should we do

that? Alright. Stump the genius. Stump the genius.

Stump the genius. It's time to stump the

genius. Take your part. I said your part. All right, so we're gonna play Stump the Genius.

This is the most uncreative one I've done. Okay. But I just, let's just do it. This is Rolling Stones trivia. Okay. So it's pretty calm. Great. I normally do something a lot more creative. Y'all go back and, but it's, let's just do this. I'm gonna fail this for sure. I've tried some different topics and none of them [00:47:00] seem to land.

Okay. So here we go. I think you'll do. All right. So Rolling Stones named after which artist song called Rolling Stone. And you mind? Muddy Water. Muddy Water. The Multiple Choice. Good job. Ding. Grab that bell. I'll do it later.

Ding. . I can reach it. You can't, you literally had to get up and go. I think farther than I would've.

I'll give you credit there. Muddy Waters. We go. Muddy Waters. Nicely done. All right. Ban the Rolling Stones. Banned from what popular TV show in 1964 because the fans were too loud. All Ed Sullivan, tonight's show. Carol Barnett, Dick Cavt, Carol Burnett, .

It's best thing I come up with, right? I'm gonna, I I'll guess Sullivan and


Very good. Nicely done. Two for two. Which Stone was a Boy Scout? Keith Richards. Mick Jagger. Watts. I'm gonna say Watts. It was Richards. Okay. He's a boy [00:48:00] Scout. Okay, how about that? Which Beatles song Jagger Sang background vocals on. Okay. Oh, revolution. Let it be baby. You're a rich man. All you need is love.

Baby, you're a rich man. It's baby rich man. Very nice. We need a new bell, our bell son. And sad bill said better days. Alright, last one. You gotta get this to keep the 80%. All right. How many consecutive days did Keith Richards go without sleep? 4, 6, 9. Wow.

Hmm. Nine sounds the most outrageous. I'll go with nine.

He's outrageous. Nine days without sleep. Holy

cow. Yeah. That's crazy. That's what did that to him. I mean, he is a vampire, so I guess it makes sense that he could like go for

long periods. Rob's got a great story about driving across the country without sleep with Adam, Harvard that saw the family of Bears.

Yes. That was like waving him off the interstate.

Yeah, man. I had a friend who like, yeah, he drove. He wasn't, it was like maybe up for 48 hours, something like that. You know what I mean? Started hallucinating and like [00:49:00] he just pulled over suddenly and is like, you gotta drive. I just saw a family of bears on the side of the road and there was a little one waving at me.

He's like, I think I'm not good anymore. , you know, I used to, I used to hallucinate if, if I stayed up too long, if I drove while I was tired, uhhuh, I would start hallucinating no, or, or not hallucinating so much as misinterpreting what I saw. Uhhuh . So like, it wasn't that I was seeing things that weren't there, but I would see, like I, I would see a green road sign with text on it and the two little thing coming out and think it was like a robot , you know, whatever.

Like my brain would say, that's a robot . Or, you know, whatever. Okay. A little more on the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Hall of Fame class of 1989. Let's highlight that class a little bit. Here's the company with which they were inducted. Dionne, the Inkspots, Otis Redding. Speaking of classic blues men the Rolling Stones, Bessie Smith from my hometown, Chattanooga, the Soul Stirs Phil Specter, the Temptations and Stevie Wonder, all in that rock and roll.

19 80, 19 89 Hall [00:50:00] of Fame class. , they are the highest grossing rock band in history. That, and they, that's one of the, they've since they've never stopped. Yeah. You know what I mean? So like The Beatles are still selling albums and albums and albums and albums, but they're not touring, but they're never touring.

Yeah. And they weren't even touring there. Tour the end. So like,

well that's all you gotta do guys, is just be great for six decades. That's all this piece of cake.

Yeah. That's all you gotta see. No big deal.

Start now by the year 2082. Yeah. You'll be, you'll be in the conversation. Yeah. For high. But you gotta be good that long.

Right? You can't just be around. No, you gotta

be good that long. Yeah. And you're gonna have to be better than the Stones, cuz they'll still be touring.

They'll still be going. That's right. They'll still be like Nick will be 312. Yeah. Still there killing it.

Their famous Lips and Tongue logo is sometimes attributed to fame to artists.

Andy Warhol, because its first appearance was in the liner notes of the album Sticky Fingers, which he designed. But the logo itself was designed by John Pace p a s c H E. So I'm gonna say pae Sounds good. Phi P John Pace, not Piy. No. . He had designed a tour poster that Mick liked, and Mick asked him to design a [00:51:00] logo for their label and suggested the Hindu Goddess Collie the destroyer as a starting point of, as one would.

Yeah. I mean, of course that's a good starting point. That's how I start my day every day. But Collie is often depicted with her tongue out and pace simplified the idea to just the lips, teeth and tongue and incorporated, incorporated kind of a facsimile of mixed lips into the design and history was born there.

You have that famous Rolling Stones logo. They have won three Grammy awards, which seems low. Yes. Right? Yeah. Seems low. And a lifetime achievement. Grammy and they were elected into the UK Music Hall of Fame in 2004, which seems late, you know? Yeah,

oh, definitely. Yeah. If they're already in 89 in the Hall of Fame.


There's a cool version of, it's only rock and roll from Live Aid. The Stones themselves did not perform at Live Aid, but Mick did solo. Okay. And so, He did. It's only rock and roll as part of a medley with state of shock with Tina Turner as his so he came out and did [00:52:00] some stuff with her. She came out and did some stuff with him.

It's only rock and roll and they crushed it.

And they're really, you should watch the performance. I mean, they are really intense. They're, I was gonna

come watch it cuz I wanna see, what is that horn section? Is it a live Oh yeah,

it's a full, yeah, it's a full

band. And

they are, I mean they're like very close to each other. The, like the, and at one point Mick actually, he takes his shirt off, leaves the stage, comes back wearing a blazer and no shirt, and a different pair of pants.

And then he at one point rips off Tina's tearaway skirt and which they had sort of like, Loosely planned before the performance uhhuh. And when I say loosely planned, I think Mick was basically like, I'm gonna tear your skirt off . And Tina was like, okay, I guess [00:53:00] we gotta go on stage now. Like, it was like that kind of thing where it was, it was not as pre-planned as the like Justin Timberlake.

Yeah. You know, like they were trying to have a moment and something went wrong. It was more like Mick was trying to come up with a wild idea that would get some attention on the cuff, and he was like, I'm gonna tear off your skirt now. Uhhuh. Yeah. So that's a little problematic at this point. What else do I have?

What else do I have? There's another cool cover of, it's only rock and roll that I found and it's called Artists for Children's Promise. Have you ever heard of this? Uhuh? It's a, you know, it's one of those. Charity. Charity things, right? But it's a really good one. Okay. Like the version of this is cool and listen to this.


Alright. Hearing, screaming,

screaming Children at

this concert, I like that tempo compared to the others. A little tighter.

That's Kid Rock.

Okay. Gosh, I don't mind it. Good. And I hate Kid Rock, but I don't mind that.

Listen to this group. [00:54:00] Kid Rock, John Bonjovi. Ozzy Osborne, spice Girls. There's Ozzy, Lionel, Richie, Dolores o Reardon from Cranberries.

James Brown, spice Girls. Oh, I said that again. Bonnie Ray, Mary j Blige, Jackson Brown. Annie Lennox What Natalie And brilliant Gavin Rossdale from Bush. Chrissy Hein from Pretenders, Iggy Pop, BB King Joe Cocker. Robin Williams makes an appearance. And Herbie Hancock on Clive. What the

heck? Yeah,

that's amazing.

It's wild. It's worth watching the video just to see all these people sing this song. It's crazy. And of course Mick is in there too, singing, you know.

Crazy that you name all those people and you're like, we're gonna give Kid Rock the first verse. Yeah. I'd have been like, are you kidding me? No. .

Yeah. Kid rock something there kind of a bit.

Oh, the dude from Jamiroquai, the lead singer Jamiroquai. He's in there too. It's, it's really interesting, the brothers Osborne and Warren Treaty have a cool, have a cool version as well. But there's one other stones thing that I [00:55:00]need to play for us before we go today and close out,

This portion.

Yeah. Don't you worry. We still got some time with

Darryl. Yeah. But before we do this, I have to make a nod to a guy that honestly we haven't mentioned in a while. And it's really been too long. This is weird, Al Yankovic . This is called the Hot Rocks Polka, and this is a polka made entirely of Rolling Stone songs.

If I could stand

in my heart, spill it all over the stage.

What satisfy you? What is light un by you?

The boy? Years strange, ain't it? If I

could win, if I could sing a love would be enough heart if

I broke and if I,

it's only rock and roll, but I like it. No. It's only [00:56:00] rock and roll. But I like it, like it .

And he goes through, I mean, whole bunch. Let's see how it ends. I can't remember what song he ends it on. Like in New Orleans, let's, let's spend the night together. Of course it ends with satisfaction. Yeah.

that riff on freaking accordion


I can't, no satisfaction, no girly action. Cause I tried and I tried and I've tried and I tried. I can't get no, take it


Satisfaction, satisfaction. Satisfaction,

man. Love that guy. We're now we're gonna get you one. [00:57:00] One day. All right. That's all I have for now. It's good for now. But we are gonna talk to, from the Rolling Stones and like so many other awesome things, we're gonna talk to Darryl Jones in just a second. But first, what I need you to do is help us celebrate 11 seasons.

Yeah. Of the Great Song Podcast by doing a few things. Grab your phone, go to Facebook, Instagram, all the important social media things of all time YouTube, and go subscribe to our channels there. You can be part of our fun little Facebook group. It is called Great Songs and the great People who love them greatly.

And if you would like to become a producer of the show, you can do that by going to patreon patreon.com/ Great, Song Podcast. And if you choose to support the show on Patreon, you'll get not only our in eternal undying gratitude, which is just insane. I mean, it just fills your whole life with warmth . But like you also get bonus shows our, our, our second show, the Catch Up with [00:58:00] Robin J.P every week during the season, exclusive Patreon episodes, early release, ad free, all the, all the ways that we can possibly say thank you.

You'll get when you support the show on Patreon and become a producer. And you get your name in the credits every episode as a producer. How about that? So thank you to everybody who's listening. Thank you for everybody who, for sticking with us for 11 seasons. And man, I can't believe we're kicking off.

The 11th season of the Great Song Podcast with an interview with one of the Rolling Stones. Awesome. Let's go talk to Darryl Jones. We'll tuck you in at the end. This is the Great Song Podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, as promised, we are here with bassist. Doesn't even seem to cover it. Bass. Bass, mega guru , Darryl Jones.

He's, he's, he's just, what? It's hard to even, it's hard to even quantify. He's

a bass player's, bass

player. You are a bass player. Bass player's, bass player. As hard as that is to say man, first of all, thank you so much for, for being with us today. It's a real treat to have you on the show.

Man, my [00:59:00] pleasure, man.

I'm glad to

be here. We, it's not every day we get to talk to a stone, so we are, you know, quite excited about that. But let's start with that, that, that kind of concept though, of being a bass player's, bass player and a musician's musician which you obviously are. But you know, you are part of a Sting's initial solo band when Sting was, you know, and you did those first couple records with him.

That's, and, and what, so that seems like you know, a certain set of criteria going into like, okay, I'm gonna be sting's bass player, , so mm-hmm. , how, what was that process like? Did he kind of put you through the ringer? How did that end up happening?

Not at all, man. To the contrary, he was really, and you know, he, he, he was really he really turned the base chair over to me.

Hmm. And I remember I was playing, you know, a baseline that he wrote, and he was, you know, he was like, Hey man, you don't have to play that. That's not written in stone. . And I was like, man, there's nothing wrong with it. You know, it's like, if it's nothing broke, you know, I'm not gonna try to fix it. Cause he writes great baselines.

I mean, we know he's a [01:00:00] great bass player himself and incredible writer, both of you know, songs, lyrics, and baselines. Mm-hmm. , you know you know, walking on the Moon, as simple as it is, it's brilliant, you know, and some of that reggae stuff, man, don't stand so close to me and.

There's, you know, there's, you know, half a dozen men that are just incredible baselines. So, yeah. Yeah, he, he was he, he really did he really did turn that over to me and a lot of times I end up playings but ended up playing his baselines cuz they were so

cool. Dude, I, I do love that dream of Blue Turtles album.

I didn't realize that Branford Marcells is kind of how you ended up with sta or kind of the connection there. Absolutely. I love the, I've already watched the documentary and it's fantastic. So I got a lot from that, but I love those stories, so if you wanna tell our listeners kind of how that connection happened.

That's a, that's a great,

well, you know, Branford was on, on Branford was on the on the bill with Herbie Hancock. He, he and Winton were playing with Tony Williams, Ron Carter and Herbie Hancock in [01:01:00] a band called V S O P. so they were there the first night that I played with Miles. , and that's how I met Branford.

And I don't know, they, you know, the press, you know, the, they were really coming down on, particularly when was kind of coming down on the guys who were playing like electric jazz. Yeah. . And and so I was like, I'm probably not gonna be, you know, too popular with them. On the contrary, that first night that I played with, with Miles, they were, you know, they were very supportive and, and told me that they thought I played really, really well with him.

And, and so that meant a lot to me. And, you know, Branford and I just kind of, you know, got to be friends. We started hanging out a little bit and then we recorded the decoy record with Miles. Yeah, yeah. Bradford's on that record. And, you know, so again, it just kind of solidified a you know, friendship there.

And so when Sting told him, Listen, I'm gonna start a band, but I'm not gonna play bass. He was like, oh, you should get

Darryl. I

know the guy. That's awesome. That's, yeah. And so that's literally how that happened. It's through Branford

and that, and for our listeners, the Miles he's talking [01:02:00] about is Miles Davis 1980.

Just casually, just casually just Dave dropping Miles Davis. Yeah. When I was playing with Miles that Decoy, that mean that first track I Healthy Gates. It's nasty, it's funky, it's awesome. And it's, well, the world gets to meet you there, so that, that's good. Yeah. Tell tell our listeners the story of the audition with Miles, the how it was gonna be over the phone and Miles just asking you if you could play like, I love this story.

This is goodie. Yeah.

Well, you know, I was at home kind of, you know, washing dishes. My mom was chastising cream me for not taking gigs, . And and I was watching this, the phone rings and it's Vince Wilburn Vince Wilburn Jr. Miles's nephew. They had just been, they had just returned from Japan. And when he got back, Miles decided he wanted to, you know, try a new bass player and as Vince if he knew anyone.

And so Vince called a few guys in Chicago. I think I was the second, I think I was the second or third call , but I was the one who answered the phone. You picked up the


That's good. That's, that's, [01:03:00] you know, lesson number one. Answer the phone. Yeah.

Answer the phone. And so he says to me, you know, after I ask a man, how was, you know, he great.

Crazy says listens, wants to hear you play over the phone. And I'm like, Hey man, quit messing around. use a different word. And said, no, man, I'm serious. Miles wants to hear you play over the phone. And I like, you know, was freaking out. Really? But. Said, you know, I'm embarrassed to say that my bass was in the trunk of my mother's car,

As I said, I had been practicing this other instrument. I figured, you know, I'm, I'll work on that until people start calling me again. You know? And I wasn't playing bass, and somehow I had left a, you know, beautiful 66 jazz bass in the trunk of my, in the trunk of my mother's car. So I go back to the phone, I'm like, Hey man, hold on.

I gotta go get my bass. And he said, no, you hold on. And, and Miles gets on the phone and says, damn, when can you be in New York? [01:04:00] That's awesome. And I'm like, I'm like, well, it's Miles Davis and I don't wanna seem too eager. So it's a Monday. I said, I could be there when, what's gonna take you so

long? You gonna

walk, you know,

And so I said, no, man, I, I'll be there early first thing tomorrow morning. And I went in and Auditioned and played a, you know, slow B flat blues. And he and he stopped me a couple of times and said, I mean, real slow. And so I played it slow . And then he asked me to play along with with a recent board tape, like a, you know, tape of the gig that they, they've been recent, you know, recent gig.

And I did that for a little while. And him and Vince get up and walk out of the room and Vince comes back in and says, okay man, you got the gig. And I was like, no, no, no. I want him to

tell me,

dude, that's a

flex, right? There's a flex That's awesome.

You knows playing around. And he hits me in the shoulder and says, you.

Was that other instrument that you were playing [01:05:00] around on? Now, I know you started at drums at age seven. Were you picking the drums back up or were

you doing No,

it was, it was a Chapman stick.


Oh, yeah. You've heard you guys have seen that instrument? Absolutely. Yeah. I'd contacted Emmett Chapman and had him send me an instrument and, and I was messing around with it and trying to, you know, it's basically, I guess I'm always trying to, you know, learn more about chords and harmony and stuff, so it was a chance to kinda mess around with that stuff.

You know, two-hand, you know, the two-handed technique and stuff like

that. So that's cool. That's what I, with at, well, then we go down the road to the early nineties and Bill Wyman retires and you audition to become part of the, the Rolling Stones . Which to me feels like a daunting idea to begin with.

I'm not even sure that I would have the intestinal fortitude to be like, yeah, I wanna audition for this. Is that, did you have any trepidation about that? Or are you the kind of guy that just goes, no, why wouldn't it be me? No.

You know, it's interesting man, because a few years earlier, I guess Steel Wheels came [01:06:00] out in what, 1989?

Sounds right ish. Yeah. A friend of mine, I was hanging out with a friend of mine in Italy and she was going on and on about the Steel Wheels record and, and going on. It's great. It's so great. This is incredible. I remember saying to her, she's okay,

you know,

it's just, you know,


and as I listened though, you know, cause she was playing it a lot and I listened to it, I started thinking to myself, you know, the way I play could work with that kind of band, could work with that band. You know, the way I hear them playing grooves and you know, what I, what I'm hearing from them I could, you know, I think the way I play could work with them, you know?

And so I guess I had it in the back of my mind. I had already met Keith. I, you know, fall in love with the band, with , those Eve Jordan, who's now playing with the Stones and Charlie Drayton, were really good friends. We were hanging out a lot of New [01:07:00] York at the time, and I really admired them because they kind of had also done the electric jazz thing, but they were moving in these other circles with, you know, Neil Young and, and devs Charlie was, you know, involved with the Devon with devs.

And, and so I was interested in that. And so when the Stones thing happened it was, I remember even when, when, when I got the call that Bill Warman was leaving, I remember kind of thinking to myself, man, I thought it was gonna be with Keith, you know, with the Winos, but okay, God, , ,

you know?

Right. That's awesome.

This is

the way it's gonna be then, you know, and I just went in and auditioned and they were very, it was very casual. They were very, Mick actually told me, man, you know, we'll teach you the song and then we'll have the audition. So it was very informal. It wasn't It wasn't at all kind of strict and you know, it was, they were, you know, they

were cool,


It's cool to hear it was cool to hear Keith say, you know, his styles kind of jerks rhythm around, and you can't do that without solid backing. And [01:08:00] the fluidity that you provide. I thought that was great as a tie into that. And you, and you mentioned Charlie Drayton. I'd never met you before this, but he says, what a beautiful soul you are.

And I gotta agree with him, like that's a great quote. And I've only known you for 12 minutes, , but I can't, can't argue with Charlie on that.

No, man. He's, he's, he's a dear, dear friend of mine and really, you know, an incredible. It's an incredible musician, man. Great. You've got great songs, man. Wait till you hear his stuff.

One of my favorite favorite spots with you as a stone is on anybody Seeing my baby off of the bridges to Babylon record. It's basically, I was telling J.P like, it's almost a bass solo, like, you know, especially like, you know, early on in the song, it's just like you're just grooving and just laying down so thick.

I'm trying to

think, wow. I gotta, I don't even remember. I don't remember. I remember recording it. . Yes. You know. Wow. That's a deep one. That particular tune, man. I

just remember as a kid, so as a kid, the Stones [01:09:00] to me at that point were still kinda like my parents' music and I Right, right. Really lived with them myself much, except for everybody knew satisfaction and that kind of stuff, you know what I mean?

But then there's like, I'm in high school and there's like this new cool stone stuff coming out and that was one of the first songs of theirs that really grabbed me as a, you know, as somebody who was interested. Modern music, you know? So I was like, that is a okay. The stones are cool. That's a cool song.

You know, . So, but it's in large part due to the bass, bass work on,

man. I love it. My my deep cut or my, my Darryl Jones reach out. I love the Journeyman project. The Clapton journeyman project. And so you're, you get to play alongside two other great bass players and Chino and Nathan East on pretty much Pino plays on, on Bad Love and Nathan East is on the rest of the stuff, but you get to play on run so far.

How do you end up getting to be on that project for one, one take and how involved are you in the mix versus some, because the, you can, it sounds like the bass player helped mix it. It sounds like the bass is really,

you know, him at, first of all, I have no idea. Russ [01:10:00] Heideman was producing that record, and I remember, I think it was him that called me, but.

I may maybe had met him. Yeah. You know, backstage somewhere, or at some recording studio somewhere. But it was kind of a, it was, it was kind of out of the, you know, a shot out of the blue because I didn't, I didn't, I had met Eric you know, just, you know, from my, you know, association, association with the stones.

He'd been on stage with us a number of times, but that was really kind of out of the blue for me. I didn't, that was really kind of unexpected. I had played a little bit with with Steve Ferone, who's on drums on some of this stuff. I had never played with the other drummer who's on that record.

Jim Keltner. Mm-hmm.

Okay. I didn't know Ketner was the other one on the

yeah's on that record. And George Harrison. Man, it's . Yeah. On that record. So it was, you know, it was pretty incredible for me. A great,

That track sounds different than all the others on Journeyman. I felt like, it's interesting

because I haven't

listened to that, so that record for so


You know,

I kinda different

Darryl just moving on from, so I know right? He's just moving on from stuff. . [01:11:00] Yeah. I got so much going on ,

to be honest, this movie has forced me to kind of take a little bit more of a look back. Yeah. You know, and, and, and I'm, I'm really grateful, man. I, I think you know it, you know, I, like you say, you know, you kind of just, you know, done it.

Okay, let's keep moving. What's next? What's next? But it, it, it, it is useful and and I do feel really blessed men to have had, you know, the career that I've had up until now. Good stuff.

Sure. That's right. Good first act. The documentary's great in the blood. Everybody make sure you check it out. And in it, you, you talk about becoming one with the music.

It's one of the kind of early themes and letting the music you're playing kind of drive your choices as opposed to just being like, Hey, this is how I play and I'm gonna do my thing all the time. You know, and that kind of professional approach is evident as you would go from something like a session with Miles Davis into something less outside, maybe like the Stones, mm-hmm.

How do you coach a young player to kind of learn that discipline of giving yourself to the music and becoming [01:12:00]one with it?

Mm-hmm. . Well, it's, you know, it's all about the song. What is the song telling you it needs, you know, and if you know, if you're playing a baseline and you're just being purely supportive on all of these different chords that are coming along, but there's no spark, Then, you know, then the song is telling you that it needs some spark.

It needs you to, to maybe make some choices that are a little bit less conventional. And and so you do that. What are the other instruments playing? What are, you know I, I try to let those things inform what I do. And I guess that's what I would tell, you know, another musician is, you know, is like, you know what, what, what, what is the music around you telling you to do?

What is the song asking of you? You know? And I think that, you know, as a general approach, that is, that's a good idea. You know? Yeah.

That was my favorite things that you talk about in the documentary is how you don't really have to be a virtuoso, but listening is a way into the magic. I mean, that's not a direct No, absolutely.

Absolutely. [01:13:00] That's pretty, pretty close. And my other favorite thing that you talked about is your take on how you didn't want to be Michael Jackson, but you wanted to play with the best in the world. And I think that's such a great space to live in.

Yeah, no, it's just interesting. It's just one of those things where being a musician was the, that was the default for me.

It wasn't, you know, oh, I, you know, I, I wanted to be like a, you know, the guy out front singing and dancing, and that didn't happen for me. So I became a, no, it wasn't like that for me. I even think about, you know, the years that I spent, you know I, you know, one of the things you speak about, you know, to, to speaking with younger musicians I always tell younger musicians, pick up another instrument.

If you play the bass, pick up a guitar, sit down at a drum kit, it'll teach you a little bit more about the other musicians that you're playing with. That's not what I was thinking when I was, when I was, you know, growing up. I was like, I want to be the, you know, I want to be the monster bass player who can do this and can do that, and can do that.

And so That, [01:14:00] that was my, that was my focus. I, I, I didn't, I didn't really wanna be the guy out front, you know, it's, that's, that's kind of a new dream for me. You know, when we, you know, think about, you know, the, you know, the stuff that I'm doing on my own. So that's, that's more of a new dream. My original dream was just to be the, you know, the bass player that played with all the best people.

That's cool. Well, let me, let me ask this, and I know we're short on time, so I'll, I'll, this may not even be the question to dive into, but the, you know, there's always, people always talk about special connections between basses and drummers. And so, you know, we've, I mean, we're, we're just now on the other side of losing Charlie Watts.

You know, just kind of walk us through kind of a little bit of what that mean. I mean, you guys were on the road, you know what I mean? It's like, it's going and then all of a sudden Charlie's gone. What does that do in the band? What is it doing in you? Well,

You know, it, it closes a chapter, you know, because.

You know, the relationship between the bass player and the drummer is, is an important one. [01:15:00] You know and what you create with one drummer, you can't clearly create that with another drummer. It's, it's, it's a kind of closed loop. It's and so Charlie Drayton, you know, you know, when, when Charlie Watts died, he sent me a note and he just said, you know, you know, you and Charlie, you guys danced, you know, you danced together a long time.

You know, he says, you haven't, you haven't danced that much with anyone, you know, and I guess, and so you know, it's it's both I'm both honored to have had the time that I had with him and and very happy to be starting a chapter with this organization, with Steve Jordan. But also it's, it's very sad because it's You know, the thing that he and I did together, the thing that he and I built together, beginning from when I started playing with the band I don't, I think that there's great stuff still yet to come because Steve is such a student of of what makes this band work and, and, and and [01:16:00] of you know, he's just, he's such an astute musician and producer that his look, his take on things, his look, the way he looks at things is, is, is pretty comprehensive.

And so it's even, it's so comprehensive that it's even forcing me to take another look and say, okay, how can we, how can we enrich this, you know, even more, how can we take the next steps because, you know, we can't take steps back, you know, so, so it's, it's it's but it's also, you know, it's very sad, man, because.

The thing that Charlie and I did together is I mean, and thank God there's a lot of documentation of it. I'm very thankful for that. I'm really thankful for that. But I miss him terribly and, and yeah, it's, it's, it's one of those things, man. It's the, I'm, you know, I'm glad that we were out on the road when he passed away because at least we had the music.

Even though, you know, even in that music, there's the bittersweetness [01:17:00] of being able to play the music to kind of help heal ourselves. But you look around and he is not there and you know that, that, that's, there's some, you know, lot of. Lot of sadness behind that, you


Well, well, we we will not bring it down on a downer.

No, I was gonna say, brought it down. We, we appreciated your vulnerability and the passion that was brought there. Chicago, south side of Chicago, bulls, Cubs, white Sauce Bears. Who's your team? Who's your

squad? Well, I should be, well, if I, I'm not a really big, you know, sports fan. Okay. But I would have to say, I'd have to be a White Sox fan because I literally grew up on the street that Cominskey Park.

Okay. You know, like on, on State Street, basically Lafayette, it's not even State Street, but Bob Park

didn't make you a White Sox fan. .

Yeah, exactly. But, you know, hey man, it was, it was incredible thrill to watch the Cubs finally when the, you know, the World Series after 80 years or something like that.

That was really, it was really gratifying, man. That was a great


I'm [01:18:00] a I'm a sucker for a good deal too. So Docs fish sandwich for a dollar 44. That is right. Back then.

My Alley, I have no,

yeah, right. I have no idea what it is now and it's probably not quite the same sandwich as it was back then, but yeah, no, that was a, it was a great time in Chicago for that.

You know, Chicago's a great town for Food Man for that kinda stuff. Well, well, we

have one question that we ask everybody. We'll be respectful of your time. Thank you so much, Darryl. This has been a blast. Yeah. You've been, been great. So we ask everybody this question. You're on tour, either picket, whoever you're with, any of your massive undertakings and you go into a gas station.

What is your gas station snack? Food of choice. And while you're thinking of your answer, I'll tell you mine. I get a Three Musketeers bar. When I was growing up, my mom would say, you could have any candy bar you want. And it's the most ounces. So I just get a Three Musketeers Bar. . What is Darryl's Snack Food of Choice from a gas station.

From a gas station from a gas station snack, food of choice. [01:19:00] Actually a heath, A heath bar.


There you go. So I really love Toffy. I really dig Toffy. And if I'm gonna be real bad , I would've to say a bag of hot nacho cheese Dorito.

Oh, there we go. There we, that's not real medium bag. That's, that's middle.

That's middle. What's, what's, what's

the worst than, oh, dude,


anything off the fryer dipped in grease is, it's just


you like talking about like a, you know, corn dog or something like that? Yeah. No, I'm, no, that's, that's a little, that's living on, that's living on the edge for me.


little . Well, Darryl, this has been a blast.

Keep doing what you're doing, man. This has been great. Thank you so much. We hope you got a good time. Thank you guys so

much. We really enjoyed time. Be blessed. Appreciate your time. We'll see it.

Take care.


is the Great Song

Podcast. And that was Darryl Jones of the Rolling Stones. That's awesome.

Holy cow.

So funny [01:20:00] story. We have a listener named Tim Holloway that I was at trivia with not too long ago. Shout out Tim. How what up, Tim? Thank you. Yeah. He's like, dude, when are you doing a Rolling Stones episode? I'm like, well, we're starting the season. He's like, what? I was like, oh, yes. So it was so neat to have that in the, in the you know, that in your pocket, the cooker.

It's like somebody throws something at you. It's like, why don't you do this? It's like, I got it. Bang . So thanks Tim, for the support. Thanks all you guys for listening. Thanks to Darryl, thanks to everything.

That's been great, . Thanks Jesus.

Thanks mom for being in that video, .

All right. We'll see you guys next week with another great song as Season 11 kicks off on the Great Song Podcast.

Until then, I'm Rob. I am J.P. Go listen to some music.